Janet Hirsch’s climbing origins lie in an outing taken with her older brother’s Boy Scouts troop, but there wasn’t exactly an immediate, heartfelt connection to the activity. “Honestly, at first I hated it,” Hirsch admits, noting that she had difficulty putting her full trust in the belayers. However, five years later, Hirsch tried climbing again as part of a Girl Scouts’ trip, and the meticulous instruction from the guides assuaged any lingering trepidation. Hirsch was hooked, and her interest in climbing aligned well with an “inherent love of teaching,” all of which led to instructional work at ropes courses and, eventually, a summer camp staff position at Earth Treks in 2009.

Other staff positions at Earth Treks soon followed, including coaching the gym’s youth team and working as a lead instructor. And in 2013, Hirsch was asked to manage all of the indoor climbing instruction programs for the gyms. “I’ve had basically some variation of that role ever since,” she says. (All Earth Treks facilities, along with Planet Granite gyms, were rebranded as Movement facilities in 2021.)

Hirsch estimates that approximately 75 percent of Movement’s programs are youth-focused, and the other 25 percent are adult-focused, but those percentages can vary across Movement’s 34 facilities. Overseeing all those various programs for the country’s largest climbing gym business is far from an easy task, but for Hirsch it’s a role that has come with a premium opportunity to help foster the meaningful connections—among program participants as well as the staff teams she leads—that is such a big focus of her work. We sat down with Hirsch to learn more.

CBJ: So, what does being Director of Programs at Movement entail?

HIRSCH: As Director of Programs, I provide guidance in the form of guidelines and consult-support to Youth Team and Program Managers in each of our 34 facilities across the country. This includes writing and updating curriculum (or getting other experts from around our gyms to collaborate on content creation), providing risk management guidelines, and providing structure for trainings, as well as coaching our Managers on being great managers and instructors/coaches. I also have a team of four regional Assistant Directors of programs who provide more direct content area support in the Colorado and NY/PA regions.

Is there a specific memory from your role thus far that sticks out?

There are so many great memories, but I really love getting to see former campers, athletes or coaches continue to develop their skillsets as educators. There are so many former campers/athletes—Colin Meyer, Liberty Runnels, Drew Hill and many others—who are now coaches themselves or even Managers themselves of Teams or Programs and are helping coach up the next generation.

What is a personal quality or characteristic that helps someone in the role of a Director of Programs?

Organization and good communication skills. With 30+ gyms, two Managers and a Gym Director at each, there’s a lot to keep track of! And it’s a really cool role in that I get to connect with folks at all levels in our staff and customer base. And that requires being able to communicate effectively with a wide range of people, from our athletes up to our CEO.

Do you have a tip you could share for communicating effectively as a programming leader?

Use the tools available to you and be consistent. If your company has something like Asana or Teams, that can work great to have a board or chat for sharing updates to information on a regular cadence. And we use monthly newsletters to promote consistent communication between our managers and the customer base in recurring youth programs, like our youth teams especially.

What’s an aspect of your role that people might not realize…or might not see on a day-to-day basis at the gyms?

Gathering and compiling feedback. As a company we really value getting input on what’s going well and what we can do better. We have systems for staff, as well as customers, to provide feedback. One of the systems we currently use is Asana forms—one for participants, one for coaches/instructors. The results come into a board that is accessed by the local team and myself, and I’ll share out great feedback or ideas that come in through those forms.

That is a super fun and exciting part of my job—to review this feedback and see what updates I can make to our guidelines…and share back the best practices from across all our facilities. It’s so much more fun to have 30+ other people to reach out to for ideating how to make the most exceptional climbing experiences for our members and guests.

What are some keys to running a successful gym program for kids?

Successful youth programs require staff who are stoked to work with kids, and who understand (or can be trained in) how to develop their participants’ climbing and risk management skills. The connections between coaches, athletes and parents, and the positive connections with the rest of the climbing community, really seem to make or break a program.

So, show genuine interest and engage with those around you. Our coaches will connect with parents at drop-off or pick-up sharing something that went well or something that was maybe scary or challenging their child faced that day. Our coaches will also help connect the athletes to the rest of the community, sharing what activity or drill they are doing and helping with taking turns, sharing beta, etc.

Also, youth programs require so many more fun props than adult programs, though I still think we can pull off a parents’ summer camp—complete with all the classic fun camp games!

Great—so, what are some props (and materials and resources) that a gym should have on hand at all times for its youth programs?

Hula hoops, pool noodles and a soft ball (or some stuffed animals) go a long way for the non-competitive programs, as does tape for things like playing elimination, etc. We’ve also found that having little items that can be hidden in holds or around the gym really engages our younger climbers (ages 8 and under). For competitive team programs, good quality routesetting or higher density hold areas—where you can make up problems—is a real game changer!

The post Fostering Positive Connections: Behind the Desk with Janet Hirsch, Director of Programs at Movement appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.

In one of the latest developments related to USA Climbing’s plans for a new National Training Center, signatories representing more than 100 climbing gyms recently submitted a letter to Salt Lake City’s city council objecting to the creation of the National Training Center in its current form.

The letter to city council members, authored by a self-described “coalition” of climbing gym owners and operators last month, stated, “Our facilities introduce most new climbers to the sport, train competition athletes, and host the events that sustain USA Climbing’s (USAC) mission and operations. The success of USAC’s proposed National Training Center depends on the support of the commercial climbing gym industry that forms the foundation of the sport. As currently proposed, [USAC’s National Training Center] project does not have broad industry support.”

The gym operators’ main objection to the National Training Center pertains to the center’s planned “commercial gym” component. The new Training Center, as currently proposed by USA Climbing, would be located in Salt Lake City and would not only serve as a training space for Team USA climbers—such as would-be Olympians and World Cup trainees—but also as a climbing gym open to the public. (Although not named in the letter, it was announced in 2024 that Momentum would be USA Climbing’s gym partner for operating the National Training Center.)

The letter from gym operators specifies: “[Our] lack of support stems from [USA Climbing’s] failure to address industry concerns that have been raised…about its intention to own and operate commercial climbing gyms, including the facility central to the National Training Center project.”

What led to the February letter, and where do things currently stand with the National Training Center project? We overview the backstory and recent events below. (More coverage of past National Training Center pushback can be found in the CBJ news thread here.)

Ongoing Concerns

Pushback to the National Training Center from climbing gyms in Salt Lake City and around the country is not new. For more than two years, dozens of gym operators representing individual gyms and multi-gym chains have expressed concerns—formally and informally—that a commercial gym space within the greater National Training Center might draw customers away from other local gyms around the Salt Lake City region, siphon resources from USA Climbing’s other areas of focus, and possibly prompt favoritism toward the partnering gym brand (Momentum) from USA Climbing. There has also been broad objection to USA Climbing opening any profit-making commercial tier after the organization has spent decades holding competitions in gyms around the country that utilized volunteer labor provided by the gyms.

“We cannot and do not support…a commercial endeavor that conflicts with USA Climbing’s own non-profit structure, history of grassroots development of competition climbing, and cooperation with the national commercial climbing gym community,” stated an early letter from December 2023 signed by operators representing 75 gym locations.

In response to the objections over the years, USA Climbing has released detailed plans and press releases, formed Task Forces, invited feedback from gym operators, added a gym operator to the organization’s Board of Directors, and established a joint committee with the Climbing Wall Association. At one point, USA Climbing even paused all National Training Center plans and proceedings for 45 days. However, this recent letter from myriad gyms—including several large and small chains, such as Central Rock Gym, Touchstone, Bouldering Project, VITAL, First Ascent, Sender One, Mesa Rim, Vertical Endeavors, Edgeworks and others—indicates that USA Climbing’s efforts have not assuaged the concerns and objections of dozens of gym operators.

It should be noted that not all gym operators in the U.S. are in opposition to USA Climbing’s current direction. When U.S. gym operators taking CBJ’s 2025 Gyms & Trends Survey were asked how optimistic or concerned they were about their country’s governing body for competition climbing (USA Climbing), 29% of the 205 U.S. gym locations represented in the survey had operators who rated their concern level to be low (1 or 2 on a 5-point scale), compared to 18% who had a high concern level (4 or 5 out of 5). But the fact that 71% of those responses showed some level of concern beyond a low level suggests there is not unwavering optimism among gym operators at the moment, and, given the pushback, the commercial side of USA Climbing’s National Training Center project is likely contributing to this sentiment.

A Hefty Price Tag

One of the core factors behind that commercial component is the cost it would take to complete and sustain such a project. The cost of building a new National Training Center was once estimated at $30 million, per USAC’s FAQ page on the topic. The elaborate facility would be built to accommodate approximately 400,000 visitors each year, according to USAC’s website, and it would host various events and competitions (and feature training resources and accouterments) for the youth, collegiate, para and elite divisions. What’s not clear at this juncture is whether (or how) USA Climbing would possibly be able to fund a National Training Center without a commercial gym component acting as a key profit-generator for the center.

The February letter to Salt Lake City’s city council from gym operators did not offer suggestions for alternative funding for the operation of the National Training Center. The letter simply stated, “The climbing industry wants this project to succeed—but our support is for a true National Training Center, not a commercial gym. We respectfully request that the commercial climbing gym component be removed before the project moves forward.”

Marc Norman, President and CEO of USA Climbing—which is headquartered in Salt Lake City—told CBJ that he is disappointed the letter was not shared directly with USA Climbing leadership. When asked about the next steps in the process amid the letter and its reverberations, Norman said, “USA Climbing is in process of finalizing the designs of the facility after receiving unanimous approval from the SLC Planning Commission and is focused on the capital campaign to secure the funds necessary to begin construction. We continue to support the Board-approved key project pillars of Performance, Events, Accessibility, and Community Access.”

The Road Ahead

Debate and discourse will likely continue among USA Climbing and gym operators around the country over the coming months, in various ways (and with varying measures). According to a Building Salt Lake article, the Salt Lake City Planning Commission’s approval of the design plans took place last month. However, the Board for the Community Reinvestment Agency (CRA) in the city—which is led by the city council—opted to not take a decision yet on the request from the center’s developer for an additional $250 thousand to $1.3 million in funding for the project, per the article. (The funding request is tied to an ongoing discussion about the reuse—or preservation—of an historic building in the area of Salt Lake City on which the training center would reside.)

Within the U.S. climbing gym industry, some operators have floated the idea of boycotting all USA Climbing events—a move of solidarity that has been proposed by gyms in the past but has yet to gain any uniformity among gyms at a widespread, national level.

Tod Bloxham, owner of Edgeworks Climbing, said he certainly expects collaboration and solidarity among gyms at a regional level to grow. “We are already seeing gyms across the country, like the coalition of California gyms launching the new Pacific Climbing Series, come together to create alternative competition circuits that better serve local athletes, expand access for different skill and interest levels, and build community in ways that aren’t tied to the traditional USAC model,” Bloxham noted. In addition to the Pacific Climbing Series, another competition series that has been gaining traction in recent years is the American Scholastic Climbing League, which originated in Colorado and now spans 12 states.

Aside from the National Training Center developments, USA Climbing’s current strategic plan (for 2025-2028), released last October, references intentions to establish “Regional Training Sites” around the country. According to the plan, these sites would be “established in partnership with gyms in multiple locations throughout the country,” which has heightened concerns for some gym operators in the industry. (As written in the gym operators’ letter to the Salt Lake City city council, “These concerns have been intensified by USAC’s partnership with a private, multi-state commercial operator and by its published strategic initiative to establish regional training sites across the country.”)

Bloxham at Edgeworks explained to CBJ, “USAC’s published strategic vision includes establishing similar regional training sites by 2028. It raises real concern that a regional training center model could involve partnering with a gym in our region, providing institutional backing that directly benefits one operator while competing with the broader market for competitors and coaching talent. Even with one of the largest and most successful teams in the Northwest, it would be difficult to compete on equal footing if a USAC-supported facility were positioned to recruit from the same athlete and coach base we have developed over the past two decades.”

Currently in Salt Lake City, the National Training Center project has been moving forward with the commercial component of the operating model intact, although the request for additional funding is pending the CRA Board’s approval. In the meantime, last month USA Climbing also announced a multi-year partnership with Bulgaria-based climbing wall company Walltopia—which is a major shareholder of Momentum—as the Official Climbing Wall, Official Training Board Frame and Official Permanent Padding of USA Climbing. Per the announcement, “The collaboration will play a key role in preparing U.S. athletes for the highest level of competition, especially as USA Climbing plans to open a new National Training Center and send a full team of athletes to the LA28 Olympic and Paralympic Games.”

Stay tuned to CBJ for more news on key developments related to USA Climbing’s National Training Center project and competition climbing in the industry.

The post Gyms Continue to Object to New National Training Center appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.

If you’ve been around climbing a while, you’ve likely heard of Obe or seen him climbing in a film. But even if you haven’t, there’s plenty of content in this installment to appreciate: a tale of stumbling upon climbing and grinding it out to make a living from it; memories from climbing’s early days; reflections about mentorship, coaching, and passing it on to the next generation; words of wisdom on riding the highs and lows of our relationship to climbing; and more great stories for anyone psyched on climbing. Plus, it all came together on the 26^th anniversary of Obe and Chris Sharma’s road trip that fueled the Rampage film so many of us know and love.

So, whether you’re on your way to work at the gym or maybe doing some holiday shopping, we hope you take a moment to enjoy giving this instant classic another listen.

Once A Climber, Always A Climber – CBJ Podcast with Obe Carrion

Obe Carrion is the guest of this CBJ podcast episode, hosted by John Burgman. Obe has long been one of the biggest names in the game as a pro climber. Over the years, he has worked with multiple brands, and he’s been in multiple climbing films, including 1998’s Free Hueco! and 1999’s Rampage. He has been a coach, a mentor, and through all of the evolutions he has remained a force of nature in the climbing industry. John and Obe talk about Obe’s career and psych in climbing: how psych is never a constant, but how there can be value in it as an unknown, and in the way that motivation comes and goes and then comes back again eventually. Obe also reflects on climbing in the 1990s, the filming of that famous Rampage documentary—in which Chris Sharma stole the show at an X Games in San Francisco, 26 years ago—hanging with Sharma, coaching the next generation, and evolving with the times.

General Topics Covered

• Introduction and Obe’s Background
• Career Decisions and Early Development
• Competition Scene and Mentorship
• Sponsorship and Professional Development
• Bouldering Boom, The Video Era
• Rampage Film Production
• Transition to Coaching
• Coaching Philosophy and Modern Climbing
• Industry Evolution

Show Notes

• Find Obe Carrion on Instagram: @obe_carrion
• Rampage on YouTube

Thank you Approach and Kilter for your support!
And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The post The Top CBJ Podcast Episode of 2025 for Gym Operators appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.

In the past several years, many resources have emerged for routesetters hoping to improve their skills, earn credentials and bolster their resumes. In North America alone, for instance, examples of these new developments have included the Climbing Wall Association’s Routesetting Guide and Professional Routesetting Program; the annual Setter Summit hosted by The Front Climbing Club, Vertical Solutions and Proxy Climbing; Climbing Business Journal’s educational Setter’s Only webinars, hosted by Vortex Routesetting, and The Impact Driver Podcast, hosted by Holly Chen, which are focused entirely on routesetting; and CBJ’s annual Routesetting Trends report, among dozens of other routesetting-related articles at CBJ.

But many of those aforementioned resources are largely aimed at routesetters who already have a knowledge base and a degree of experience in the field. In other words, there are a lot of resources available for people who are on the routesetting career track. What about people who are at the very beginning of their routesetting journey? And what about other professionals working at climbing gyms who think routesetting might be an enjoyable and fulfilling career to transition into but aren’t exactly sure how (or where) to test that hunch? Structured certification programs like the CWA’s PRS Levels are of course an ideal pathway, but what if there’s not a course coming up near you yet and you can’t afford to travel far?

To better explore the introductory realm of routesetting career development, CBJ enlisted the help of Steve Neff, Director of Routesetting for Philadelphia Rock Gyms, Inner Peaks and Hudson Boulders. Over the years, Neff has spearheaded countless routesetting programs and initiatives for the staff at those gyms, and here he offers thoughts and wisdom on five initial steps that can be helpful to take when getting started as a routesetter.

STEP 1: Understand the difference between climbing and routesetting

A first step to becoming a routesetter is more like a pre-step, but it’s vital in the process—and it is largely a matter of self-reflection. Anyone interested in the routesetting craft should be climbing a lot and constantly asking, “Is routesetting right for me?” While climbing, would-be setters should analyze and scrutinize the routes and the holds to figure out why the holds are arranged the way they are. (What is the intended crux? What message was the routesetter trying to convey? What aspects of the route make it feel particularly easy or difficult? etc.)

Additionally, if you envision yourself in this scenario, you could experiment with different moves on the routes and play climbing games with your friends (like add-on, in particular). As you interact with the routes in different ways, note how you might be able to skip certain holds that other climbers are unable to skip. Although there is no universally recognized climbing skill level that’s required to be successful as a professional routesetter, Steve Neff cites V6 and 5.12+ as decent targets, since those grades (and above) will likely expose you to most of the techniques you will need for crafting movement. Most importantly, internalize the fact that routesetting entails making climbs for strangers—not just for yourself and your friends.

Neff says: “You need to understand what your strengths are on the wall—and how those strengths will relate to the routes/boulders you’ll be creating. The goal in commercial sets, by and large, is to create climbs that can be climbed by many different people (adults, kids, elderly, etc.). All those climbers might have different wingspans, hand sizes, endurance, etc. Also, consider that a relationship with routesetting will greatly affect your relationship with climbing. You’re not the person just solving problems anymore; you are the “puzzle master” creating problems to be solved. As a routesetter, your passion for climbing might feel like work sometimes—and you will have to be okay with that.”

STEP 2: Get your foot in the door

Once you spend some time pursuing the aspects and self-reflection in Step 1, look to do some actual routesetting. Often a great place to start is giving routesetting a try in a low-pressure, non-commercial setting first. If you don’t have a homewall yourself, consider reaching out to your climbing friends to see if they would be willing to let you screw or drill some holds into theirs (with proper personal protective equipment, of course). Homewalls are a great place to cut your teeth into the craft, learn some mechanical basics, and help you walk into a climbing gym with a few skills in hand first.

After you’ve had a chance to develop some entry-level skills, keep an eye out for some volunteer routesetting opportunities near you. Often gyms that are preparing for an upcoming competition, for instance, could use some volunteer help, so check to see if they could use someone to help with stripping holds or the like. If you show yourself willing and capable of doing the grunt work that more experienced setters may have less time to do on these busier days, you could find yourself with some routesetting work to add to your resume.

In some cases, another way to get your foot in the door is simply by reaching out to the head routesetter at your local gym. Presumably you won’t be “on staff” at a gym when you begin your routesetting journey, so don’t expect a head routesetter to let you create actual routes or boulders at first. But you might be able to shadow a routesetting session or two and get an impromptu lesson on how to properly bolt holds onto the wall, or some introductory insights into safety, tools, movement, teamwork and other essentials for commercial routesetting.

Neff says: “Definitely reach out to your local head routesetter, but also consider a few other avenues. For example, sometimes gyms put on routesetting clinics to bring members in and show them the process of setting. There are lots of clinics going on around the industry, and some like the CWA’s PRS L1 course have lower bars for prerequisites. Also look into internships; some gyms have structured programs that will take beginners and teach them how to set. (And, if there are vacancies in the gyms’ setting staff after the internship is finished, you’ll likely be considered for a job.) Finally, keep an eye out for part-time routesetting jobs at the gym. Maybe you won’t start out setting full-time right away, but perhaps you could combine that work with another part-time position. Remember, it’s all about getting your foot in the door at a gym.”

STEP 3: Keep observing and adapting

In some ways, this step is reminiscent of Step 1 in its embrace of self-reflection and analysis, but it’s under the presumption that you’ve successfully started doing some routesetting at a gym. Any new routesetter should always continue to cultivate the craft, and this principle means learning and understanding what makes certain climbs easy, difficult, fun, “boring,” etc. Yes, it can be largely subjective. However, if you keep your eyes and ears open, you’ll likely notice some commonalities start to emerge around what you’re doing well and what could be improved.

It might sound obvious, but when you set a route, you should watch the gym patrons climb it; this is one of the primary pieces of advice we’ve heard veteran setters give. Neff offers a mental checklist to keep in mind when doing so, which includes questions like: Are people cruxing at the route’s intended crux? Are kids needing more footholds? Are there some movements that look potentially injury-inducing? Is there a substantial variation in the climb’s success rate among short and tall climbers?

Climbers will typically take the path of least resistance on a route. So, if a majority of the climbers you observe aren’t understanding your intended beta, it’s a sign that your route is unintuitive. In other words, you did not provide the necessary tools for climbers to figure out the beta. Don’t get discouraged, though. Being okay with having the climbs they set be tweaked is something all commercial setters must do. Take it as a sign that you’ve made it to the level of routesetting professionally, treat it as a learning opportunity, and keep improving.

Neff says: “Every gym has a different philosophy for analyzing routes. A lot of gyms use the RIC Scale, but I find that it is more pertinent to comp style sets than commercial sets. A lot of members (and gym owners) do not like “risky” behavior toward the top of the wall. I like to use the FCHAD scale…

Flow: How intuitive is the movement on the route? Are there seamless transitions between moves?

Consistency: Does every move exhibit an equal amount of effort between moves? (Ideally you don’t want cruxes that are grades harder than the rest of the climb.)

Hold Selection: Are the holds you used on a climb ergonomic? Are the holds used to their fullest potential? Is there a potential for injury (i.e. getting a heel-toe cam stuck)? And…I say this lightly, do the moves look cool? (A route’s aesthetics should matter when you’re setting because the aesthetics are an aspect that will draw climbers to a given route, but the degree to which those aesthetics should be considered and weighed will vary from gym to gym, setter to setter, etc.)

Accessibility: Can a kid do this climb? Can a full-grown adult climb it?

Diversity: Are there a number of different movements and types of movements within the climb?”

STEP 4: Reflect on which career path is right for you

Neff points out that it’s important in your routesetting journey to pan out at some point and start asking questions about your desired career trajectory. What do you want to do with your burgeoning routesetting skills and knowledge? Do you want to work up the career ladder at a gym and take on a leadership role as a head routesetter? Do you want to set for local and regional competitions? Do you want to travel the world on the World Cup circuit? Set at the Olympics?

Dreaming big can be a motivating force to hold in one hand, but it’s also important to have realistic expectations in the other. Remember, at the end of the day routesetting is a job, and it can be hard to rely on competition setting alone as a source of income, since it’s more infrequent than commercial setting and sometimes even comes with lower wages. USA Climbing has established certification levels that can help you hone your routesetting skills for competitions, especially, but it can take years of investing time and money to progress through them.

Don’t forget you can make a positive difference right at home, too, and serving their local gym communities is how many routesetters have built meaningful careers over the years. Neff encourages keeping an eye out for the unique role you can fill in your corner of the world.

Neff says: “I see a lot of routesetters getting into the industry so they can be a part of the flashy competition scene. While I have criticisms of this part of the industry, at the end of the day it comes down to this: Competitions help build your perspective and network, but comps don’t usually pay the bills. The comp scene is extremely competitive. First, you have to buy into the program and each of its tiers. Then, when there are big competitions, the chances of you being chosen to set are slim-to-none because the organization is saturated with qualified routesetters. So, keep all that in mind. In my opinion, figuring out a routesetting niche that your local gym needs will be a more valuable use of your time and energy. If your local gym has a youth team, make sure they have a good mix of “training climbs” (of various grades) and a mix of comp moves sprinkled in throughout the gyms’ routes. Bolster your knowledge base by routesetting at a few local competitions throughout the year. If there is a substantial elderly base at your local gym, create a lot of routes in the 5.3–5.8 range in your gym. It comes down to the fact that niches at local gyms are endless. Make yourself valuable in your gym by having a finger on the pulse of your product and community…and bring your routesetting ideas to the people shaping that product.”

STEP 5: Continue to develop professionally

If you’ve made it this far in the chain of steps, you’re at a point where there are countless other resources available for continuing your routesetting journey. In addition to the educational resources mentioned at the start of this article—CWA PRS Program, Setter Summit, etc.—there are tons more clinics, workshops and events out there that provide professional development for commercial routesetters, although some tend to be more geared toward intermediate and advanced setting skills rather than essentials for beginners.

Some more resources to look into—along with USAC’s Levels focused on competition setting—include the CBJ Setter Beta newsletter, CWA Work at Height certifications, Vortex Routesetting clinics, Bolt and Revolt clinics, Impact Routesetting courses, Petzl Technical Institute trainings, Routesetting Institute instruction, The B.I.G. Initiative workshops, The Movement Routesetting education and Setter Showdown events.

Neff says: “There are routesetting certifications that you can get, which will help make your resume stand out as you apply for routesetting jobs, competition gigs, etc. Different gyms will value the certifications differently, but the two entities with the largest industry recognition at the moment would be USA Climbing (more background on their routesetting certifications can be found here) and Climbing Wall Association (more background on their PRS certifications can be found here).”

About the Setter

Steve Neff has been part of the indoor climbing scene since 2008, working in a variety of roles before discovering his passion for routesetting in 2011. These days, he is the Director of Routesetting for Philadelphia Rock Gyms, Inner Peaks and Hudson Boulders, where he leads setting teams and helps create fun, challenging and memorable climbing experiences across all locations.

The post 5 Tips for Getting Started as a Routesetter (feat. Steve Neff) appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.

Graphic by Climbing Business Journal; all photos are courtesy of Parker Simms

Today’s episode features an interview with Parker Sims, founder of Gravity Bear, a new bouldering gym built inside a century-old, renovated building in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma. Parker talks with host John Burgman about the process it took to bring this ambitious project to life, from managing construction timelines and subcontractors to refining the gym’s vision around a “minimum-viable-product” approach.

Throughout the conversation, Parker shares the challenges of acting as his own project manager, the importance of hiring the right team early, and how the gym’s design evolved to balance financial reality with addressing community needs. He also explains how his military background shaped his leadership style and resilience through the ups and downs of construction.

Listeners will hear how Parker drew inspiration from climbing gyms around the world, blending a European-style, café culture with a focus on creating a community gathering space and true “third place” for locals and visitors alike.

Tune in to learn how Gravity Bear came together—one deadline, renovation and lesson at a time.

General Topics Covered

• Project Management and Construction Challenges
• Team Building and Organizational Structure
• Facility Vision with a Minimum-Viable-Product Focus
• Building Renovation and Historical Preservation
• Military Influence on Leadership and Business Philosophy
• Competitive and Community Insights from Global Climbing Gyms

Show Notes

• @climbgravitybear

Thank you Approach and Kilter for your support!
And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The post The Value of Collaboration in Gym Creation – CBJ Podcast with Parker Simms appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.

This episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast is a little historical. There is so much that is often recounted and celebrated related to the heritage and lineage of outdoor climbing, and there is an equally fascinating counterpart to that history with the history of indoor climbing. The wonderful industry that we have now with climbing gyms includes components that are largely unique to the indoor scene. Things like routesetting and artificial holds, coaches, comps…These elements didn’t just appear suddenly in gyms; they had to germinate and develop over a long period of time. And that’s not news to anyone who is listening to this podcast. It is worth pointing out that, more often than not, there was a person or a small group of people who were at the vanguard of those ideas and various developments.

That background leads to today’s guest, Mike Pont. Mike was one of the people leading the charge in the earliest days of indoor climbing, and particularly the earliest days of routesetting. He was among the first group of people in the United States who actually thought of themselves as routesetters in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when climbing gyms were few and far between. And Mike Pont, along with a few other people, helped make routesetting a concept and helped put it into practice. Mike was also involved in organizing some of the earliest large-scale climbing competitions in the U.S. and was involved in the climbing portion of the ESPN X Games. He basically had a front row seat for the generational turnover in sport climbing and in the climbing industry that occurred in the 90s. Mike and host John Burgman get into all those instrumental beginnings for our industry on today’s show.

General Topics Covered

• Early Climbing Experiences
• The Birth of Routesetting
• Competition Development
• American League of Forerunners
• ESPN X Games
• Competition Routesetting
• The New Generation of Climbers
• Coming Full Circle

Show Notes

• @mikepont1

Thank you EP Climbing and Rock Gym Pro for your support!
And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The post A Pioneer of the Climbing Gym Industry – CBJ Podcast with Mike Pont appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.

Today’s podcast episode features an interview with gym founder Eric Hires. Eric is the co-owner of Stone Climbing, the first location of which opened in St. Augustine, Florida, several years ago. Now, there’s a second Stone Climbing gym that is quickly approaching its grand opening in Jacksonville, Florida. Eric talks with host John Burgman about the development and the construction of both those gyms. The new Stone Climbing gym that’s about to open in Jacksonville is a 16,000-square-foot ground-up build, with boulders and roped climbs.

The focus of this conversation with Eric is on the challenges (and opportunities) inherent in opening a gym in a place like Florida, which certainly has some gym climbing history but doesn’t have an outdoor climbing heritage per se. John was also curious to get Eric’s insights on the lessons he learned from opening that first gym…and how Eric is applying those lessons to the opening of a second gym. So, keep listening to hear how jotting something down on a barroom napkin was crucial in the creation of Eric’s gyms in Florida.

General Topics Covered

• Introduction to Stone Climbing
• Climbing and Surfing Communities
• Origin Story of Stone Climbing
• The Bar Napkin Connection
• Ground-Up Construction vs. Retrofitting
• Second Location Development
• Creating Beautiful Spaces

Show Notes

• @stoneclimbingco

Thank you Approach and Strati for your support!
And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The post Building Gyms from the Ground Up – CBJ Podcast with Eric Hires appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal Podcast, host John Burgman checks out a new gym, ROQ, that is currently expected to open this fall in Seattle. The gym is quite unique in concept within the climbing gym industry, although somewhat par for the course in the fitness gym industry. Guest Michael Hauss is the founder and CEO of ROQ. The boutique climbing gym will feature high-intensity, hour-long workouts in a class setting, led by an instructor or trainer. In their conversation, Hauss and Burgman talk all about how the concept for the unique climbing gym came about, and how Hauss plans to run it in the vein of boutique fitness gyms with classes, instructors, and very high-intensity group training.

General Topics Covered

• Business Concept for ROQ
• Class Structure and Programming
• Target Market and User Experience
• Hauss’ Background
• Facility Design and Operations
• Market Positioning
• Industry Impact
• Technology and Equipment Choices

Show Notes

• ROQ
• ROQ Instagram: @ROQClimbing

Thank you Approach and Essential Climbing for your support!
And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The post Is This HIIT Climbing Gym Starting a Trend? – CBJ Podcast with Michael Hauss appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.

Today on the Climbing Business Journal Podcast, host John Burgman meets with Jonathan Brandt. Jonathan is one of the co-founders of a new climbing gym in Holland, Michigan, called Shift. It’s a 12,000-square-foot, bouldering-focused facility, and by Jonathan’s own admission, there aren’t a lot of bells and whistles in the gym, meaning there aren’t a ton of fancy accouterments or amenities that are too far afield from climbing. Inside the space is primarily a bunch of really cool boulders and the community of staff and stoke that has developed around those blocks.

Jonathan has been in or around the climbing industry for about 20 years. So, Shift’s founding comes with a lot of expertise and experience. You’ll hear Jonathan explain how and why he felt the timing was right now, after all these years, to finally open his own gym. And he acknowledges there are a ton of other bouldering gyms out there right now. So, the question becomes: How do you stand out in this day and age? How do you set your new gym apart from the pack? There are several ways to answer that question, but Jonathan’s contention is that, in the case of Shift, it has a lot to do with the staff you hire and the culture that staff helps to build.

General Topics Covered

• Introduction to Shift
• Holland, Michigan and Gym Development
• Mission and Business Philosophy
• Staffing and Culture
• Family Meals and Staff Development
• Hospitality and Community Building
• Hold Room Design and Wall Construction
• Marketing and Future Plans

Show Notes

• Shift
• Shift Instagram: @shiftclimbing

Thank you Approach and Kilter for your support!
And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The post Hiring Is Sacred – CBJ Podcast with Jonathan Brandt appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.

CBJ: What was your route to becoming Philadelphia Rock Gyms’ Executive Program Director?

MEEHAN: I first stepped into the world of climbing and the Philadelphia Rock Gyms in 2011, just as I was finishing high school. As a new climber, I practically lived at the gym…I threw myself into every role I could: working the front desk, coaching, setting, and eventually managing our competitive climbing team, Team PRG. That’s where I truly found my passion.

Is there a particular area that your programming emphasizes?

A key principle we emphasize in our programming is technical development over pure conditioning and strength. Too often climbers believe, “If I were just a little stronger, I could do that move.” But in reality proper technique makes the biggest difference. Instead of just muscling through climbs, we teach climbers to focus on movement efficiency—like adjusting hip positioning to conserve energy. For most climbers, when they hit a plateau, it’s their technical ability—not strength—that holds them back.

What is the biggest difference between youth programs and adult programs?

Surprisingly, when it comes to the technical approach, the differences aren’t as big as people might think. Regardless of age, climbing technique remains at the heart of our training. Where the difference really shows is in how adults engage with structured coaching. Parents often enroll their kids in instructional programs without hesitation, but adults tend to be more reluctant to seek coaching for themselves. Life is unpredictable, money can be tight, and structured classes feel like a big commitment. To make coaching more accessible, we offer free member coaching sessions once a month. This gives adult climbers a chance to experience professional instruction without pressure.

What are some of the keys to getting kids excited about a program?

Climbing has one of the longest competitive seasons compared to traditional sports, with our main season spanning 10 months—and summer expeditions filling the remaining months. Keeping kids engaged throughout that time requires structured progression, which is why we build our programming around a goal-based training cycle. This approach keeps athletes focused and motivated as they transition from skill-building to conditioning phases, depending on whether they’re training for bouldering or roped climbing. Another major factor in maintaining enthusiasm—especially for our competitive team—is ensuring kids have diverse ways to stay engaged beyond USA Climbing competitions. While USAC plays an important role, it primarily serves elite athletes at the top of their age brackets. The competition formats and setting styles don’t necessarily resonate with all climbers. That’s why, beyond USAC events, athletes at PRG set outdoor project goals, participate in The BURN Series [PRG’s homegrown, “more accessible” competition], or focus on personal indoor achievements. Climbing is an incredibly broad sport, and we believe youth programs should reflect that diversity rather than be solely centered around USAC events like many other programs do.

In a given youth program, what have you found the ideal staff-to-climber ratio to be?

The ideal ratio depends on the age and experience level of the climbers. For younger children who are new to climbing, a ratio of 1:4 or 1:5 ensures the children get adequate supervision and instruction. For advanced competitive team members, ratios of 1:8 or 1:10 tend to work well, as they require less hands-on supervision but still benefit from structured guidance.

What are the most important qualities for a program director?

First, leadership. A director isn’t just overseeing a program; they’re managing people, and earning the respect and trust of your team motivates them to embody and uphold your program’s core philosophies. Second, organization. With multiple programs running across multiple locations, strong systems are essential, and streamlining operations with well-structured processes makes everything more efficient. Finally, communication. A well-run program requires clear, effective communication—not just with staff, but with members, athletes and parents. Ensuring messages are understood and followed through is key to maintaining cohesion.

The post Broadening Our Programs: Behind the Desk with Tom Meehan at Philadelphia Rock Gym appeared first on Climbing Business Journal.